The Death of Superman animated movie

I'm not sure I'd even be as fond of this as I am without the 2007 travesty to compare it to.

It's nice seeing specific 90s Superman characters many thought we'd never see again.  But it's odd throwing these 90s Nostalgia references into a universe that has a New52 aesthetic.

I frankly feel like the only way it'll ever work to re-imagine this story with a more normal Lex Luther would be with a history where he and Superman hadn't been openly antagonist yet.  When I first read these Comics I didn't have all the context for the Alexander Luthor Jr stuff, but I know I rather enjoyed the dynamic of everyone kind of getting along with Lex while he was keeping his evilness hidden.  That might be something important to me because I read them while growing up on Smallville, that show also makes me crave more nuanced takes on Superman and Lex's relationship.

Mostly though, what I wanted from an attempt to do this story-line in only two movies is for the first movie to simply have the Superman vs Doomsday fight be the first act/half of the movie and then the rest be Funeral for a Friend.  Honestly some of the most memorable moments in Comics to me are early in the World Without A Superman trade paperback, how much time is spent in the moments right after he died, trying to revive him and just generally dealing with the shock of it.  So seeing multiple adaptations jump right to the funeral within 30 seconds always feels like a waste to me.

Now I know that would be an odd structure for a movie, the opposite of conventional action movies, but it can work.  Just look at the last Gundam The Origin OVA, it's about the same length as this movie, and all the real action in it, the Battle of Loum, is in the first act of the film, the rest is chronicling the aftermath of the battle while getting things exactly where they were when the original Gundam series started.

"But that was the last movie in a series not the first" you'll likely respond.  Yes it was, but in this case the Superman we're following had been in a trilogy of Justice League movies.  But they could also have just done a normal Superman solo cartoon before this (we hadn't had one since before Man of Steel came out) where they deal with him revealing himself to Lois and establish this universe's Lex and so on, and then ended with a cool "Doomsday is Coming" cliff hanger.  Maybe base it on the Eradicator story-line.

But regardless of all that I don't need that much context, the first Superman Comic I ever read was World Without A Superman, I didn't even have the context of how he died.  My prior familiarity with Superman was stuff not in the same continuity but that was enough.

I'm optimistic that I'll enjoy the Reign of The Supermen film a lot more. This film wasn't bad, just still far from how I want this story to be treated.  The best dramatized adaptation is still the BBC Audio Drama.

How much of BvS was Snyder's original vision?

And yes I'm talking even the ultimate cut here.

One reason I'm doing this is I find it so ironic people want to blame Snyder for what they see as DC doing a Shared Cinematic Universe wrong, while I'm certain a Shared Universe was NOT his original plan at all.

There is much I love about the film and much I hate.  And I'm not saying Snyder's original vision would have had none of what I dislike, since I do have issues with MOS.

But, I think MOS under performing did make Warner change direction.

The-Fanboy-Perspective insists Batman being in the sequel and starting a shared universe was always the plan.  And I do think execs at Warner always considered it an option.  But I think while he may never admit it, originally Snyder was as against the Shared Universe idea as Nolan was.

Now a director being pressured to change his original vision is not necessarily synonymous with hating the experience or the film he wound up making, by the time he was filming I think Snyder loved getting to play around with Batman and Wonder Woman and The Flash and the allusions to Apokolips and Injustice.  And sometimes people change their original plans without external pressure at all, so it not being the original plan does not make it inherently invalid artistically.

And I think we do still have a version of his original plan.

Batman V Superman is still very much the middle act of a trilogy.  And because of that it was always going to be darker then Man of Steel, but maybe without Batman and specifically the DKR aspects it would not have been as unrelentingly dower.  Because MOS did have a sense of Humor, and so did Watchman and Sucker Punch and literally every other Snyder film.  Yet his reputation has become joylessness because of this one single film.  Much of this film is way more typical Snyder then Man of Steel was, but it is also far far darker and grittier then typical Snyder.

What Angry Joe hates the most was always going to be in the film.  The-Fanboy-Perspective is absolutely right that the Death of Superman was necessary, it's what makes this the middle act of a Trilogy and why in fact it works as that far more then The Dark Knight does.  Nolan read Joseph Campbell for Rises, but Snyder was drawing on him from the start.

Lex Luthor in some capacity I think was also always part of the plan, based on the constant LexCorp logos in MOS.

Aspects of what I'll say below could make it sound like I'm suggesting Snyder's original plan was almost exactly the same but with different characters playing the roles.  Obliviously that's not what I think.  I do not think any of the Flash, Aquaman or Cyborg stuff had equivalents in the original plan, nor the Injustice inspired future dream/vision, nor Clark investigating Batman though I hope he would have been investigating something, for many seeing investigative reporter Clark was their favorite part.  And certainly not the Martha stuff, which does happen to be what I loved most.

The Wayne Enterprises logo on that Satellite in MOS was seen as evidence of a shared universe even before they announced Batman V Superman.  But it was the same Logo from the Nolan films, no thought put into it at all.  There were all these fan theories that it might be relevant to how Bruce gets involved, and it wound up not being mentioned at all.  SR also mentioned Gotham and the Shumacker Bat-Films each mentioned Metropolis, those didn't lead to crossovers.

Instead we got Metropolis and Gotham being twin cities right next to each other, with the Bat-Signal visible from Metropolis.  Yet no mention of Gotham in MOS.  Originally when people said "where was Batman when Zod attacked" I was like, you're idiots, he isn't a global player and his concern is Gotham.  Once I realized Gotham and Metropolis were barely different cities, then I was like OKAY why was none of that mentioned? ever?

That twin cities decision tells me that whatever aspects of Bruce/Batman's role in this came from Snyder's original plans, were meant to be played by someone in Metropolis.  It might be two roles put together, with Alfred included to provide for when the role needed to be two people.  Or maybe not.  But if so I actually think that is a potentially brilliant way to write Batman into a story he wasn't originally in.

Maybe some of the Batman stuff was going to be a Metropolis urban vigilante like Steel or Gangbuster or The Gaurdian. And/or maybe Superman's fight where he nearly loses because of Kryptontie was meant to be against Metallo or Conduit or a Green Battle Suit Lex Luthor.  (Of course many details of that fight as finally filmed were clearly taken from DKR).

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think much of Bruce Wayne's role might have been the original plan for Luthor.  I think most of Eisenberg's role in this better fits a character like Maxwell Lord or Westfeild, someone corrupt in the Government who is good a greasing the wheels.

The-Fanboy-Perspective article I linked to also pointed out the significance of beginning and ending with a funeral.  If it wasn't originally gonna be Batman then how does that fit?  Maybe it was an idea that came to Snyder or one of the writers after Batman started being added to the script.  Or maybe it was going to begin with a Funeral of someone who died during the Zod attack?  Someone at the Funeral of their friend or relative who I'll call Jack who died during all that, who then flashed back to it.  I think the whole revisiting the ending of MOS from a more mortal perspective could have always been the plan, that was something I found really cool.

Remember that empty pod in the ship in Man of Steel? And the Prequel comic to explain it?  How there was all that speculation on it maybe setting up Supergirl?  What if Wonder Woman's role was originally meant for Supergirl?  Maybe someone suggested, this female character who's been on the Earth for centuries and has Superman's power levels could easily be replaced with Wonder Woman to set up her movie.

Man of Steel was a first contact film.  Michael Bailey talks about why that is central to what he doesn't like about it.  I think telling a Superman Origin story as a first contact film is a very valid way to do that story.  But it doesn't fit a shared universe where we learn later that all these Amazons and Atlanteans and Mother Boxes have always been here.

I'm not necessarily saying Snyder's original vision required Humans and Kryptonians as the only sentient species who exist in the Universe, (though aspects of MOS make it hard to believe otherwise, all that searching Zod and company did to find nothing).  But the Fantasy/SciFi hybrid of the New Gods mythos, the purely fantasy mythos of Wonder Woman and Aquaman, and more Doctor Who like SciFi mythos of The Flash fit in many Superman universes, but not in Man of Steel.

I think something like the Steppinwolf reveal might have always been planned, but it might have originally been Eradicator or Brainiac, perhaps a more TAS/Smallville inspired Brainiac.

I also think Justice League is going to be a version of what Snyder always planned for his third Superman film, the final act of the Trilogy.  And even Superman not being in the first 30 minutes to an hour of it could have been the same, but with the original plan being a World Without A Superman/Reign of The Supermen kind of story for that part.  I think the Codex being in his DNA may factor into how he resurrects.  And maybe Wonder Woman and the male Leaguers are replacing Supergirl and the 4 would be replacement Supermen.   In the story being told now, Cyborg being made from a Motherbox could mean he'll get taken over by Steppinwolf at some point and have to fight the others.

I've defended how DC is setting up it's Universe differently then Marvel's, not telling 7 origin story films first, by saying I want to just jump into an already rich universe, like every new Comic Book fan does, and many Animated Films do.  The thing is, I knew all that time but avoided drawing attention to how Man of Steel being an Origin film goes against that effect, it's now made the original Superhero the youngest.

Batman V Superman is absolutely a sequel to Man of Steel in that it uses the same cast for all common characters, and draws on it's events (far more then The Dark Knight drew on Begins).  Yet it winds up for all the reasons I just said and some others I can't explain not truly feeling like the same universe to me.

The Comics themselves often have that vibe with all the Continuity re-shifting.  Following the original Crisis on Infinite Earths the Teen Titans were carrying on the same story-lines, but Superman's world is totally different and Wonder Woman started over, Batman was compatible at first but more and more flashback comics would rewrite his earlier history.  Or DKSA being a totally different kind of world to DKR.

Films did this back in the Universal Monster days.  Frankenstein Meets The Woflman references Ghost of Frankenstein events even though the town is a completely different kind of town, and takes place before it time period wise.

Man of Steel actually fits in the Nolanverse better then it does the 2016 and up DCEU.  The question of why Superman did nothing about Bane threatening to Nuke Gotham is because he didn't show up yet, he learned to fly a year later.  And it's Wayne Enterprises uses the same logo.  I'll designate it Earth-N.  And so those Fan Trailers of Bale and Cavil crossovers can be valid again.

BvS and Suicide Squad feel to me like the same universe even though they are tonally and stylistically different films.  But MOS does not.

Processing Batman V Superman

If I were a prideful person the last thing I'd do is possibly retract a glowing review of a film within 2 days of posting it.

Everything I said I loved in that initial review I still love, the issue is the things I was kind of in denial of.

First thing I should mention is because of my local theater's new pick the seat when you buy the ticket policy I wound up with no choice but to watch in the second row, and it was the Ultra Screen, and 3D which I've never had a problem with before but never been up front before.  I honestly think that hindered my ablity to enjoy the show somewhat, but I saw The Dark Knight in the first row of the same theater and that was no problem.

For the last year or two I've made a big deal out of the fact that my expectations of movies have never been wrong.  My opinion may be inconsistent with popular opinion but I'd never disliked a movie I thought I would love.  So maybe I didn't want to admit that that undefeated streak had been broken.  I wanted to leave this film proclaiming it to have beaten The Force Awakens, and that I couldn't do even yesterday.

There are different ways to criticize this movie.   And if you're someone who hated Man of Steel then your criticisms of it's sequel are useless, you should just not see the sequel if you didn't like the first.

There are two kinds of criticisms of Man of Steel, there are the film making and writing criticisms a professional film critic would make.  And while I find those far more understandable here then with many other films I've liked that the critics didn't (Like the Star Wars Prequels), I still see them are far from deal breaking, there is no doubt this film was a beautiful piece of art with some phenomenal acting.



Spoilers Ahead!!!





Then there are the criticisms a fan would have, Comic fans who have many things they both absolutely did and absolutely did not want to see recreated.  And my fellow SJWs who care about representation and stereotyping issues.  There is a lot to understandably hate about this movie.  But some things to like too.

As a Man of Steel fan I've never proclaimed it the ideal Superman movie, I'll make a post in the near future that will give an idea of what the ideal would be to me.  My hope for this sequel had always been that it would take us in the direction of the Superman I love, and what we got of that was a mixed bag at best.

As far as my personal Fanon/Headcanon is concerned Jenny is the Jimmy Olsen of this universe no matter what Snyder says.

I somewhat controversially said I do not have a problem with including Doomsday and not killing Superman.  And I even could have been ok with doing the Death of Superman this soon.  But this execution was mixed.  Two of the things I liked about how the Comics did it was that it didn't involve Krytponite and was absolutely not Luther's doing.  But I did like how it made me think of the Spear of Longinus.

The Fan Boy Perspective is pretty much expecting the coming R Rated version to be better.  There is little chance I will wind up feeling that way.  I wanted a film that was Dark but not a seeming full on rejection of the lighter side of the DC universe, and it is largely in that desire that I'm disappointed.

I was really bothered when Jena Malone (it'd leaked that she was Barbara Gordon) didn't appear in the film.  And if the "uncut" version has her appear in only one scene where she's crippled and ambiguously raped, I will frakking hate that version with a passion, whether it has been in theaters or now.

I'm ok with The Killing Joke moment being part of her history ONLY if it gives us Oracle, without Oracle it is useless fridgeing and nothing more.  And that is part of why the New52 canon bothers me.

The complaints people at the Mary Sue have I also consider valid.  When they're getting into what their site is about and not just vaguely saying it was "unpleasant".

I will still reject any sense of blaming the problems on the Shared Universe concept or "catching up to Marvel".

There is this notion that just because something does serve as set up for future movies means it's clearly irrelevant to that movie as a stand alone piece.  In art there is more to it then just what at face value advances the plot.  All of my favorite completely self contained Animes like Utena and Evangleion have lots of moments that are plot/story/character irrelevant but absolutely needed.  I love Iron Man 2 exactly how it is and honestly think it would be less of a coherent work without it's crossover elements.  Same with The Amazing Spiderman 2.

So how is all that Justice League set up relevant to this as a stand alone film?  Maybe because it's making Superman a Messianic archetype and now his Disciples are going to make more disciples.  His legacy will live on.

But I also must admit despite my denials that this movie wasn't their original plan.  A shared universe was Warner's plan I don't doubt, but I fear Batman was thrown into this particular film when MOS under performed.

Seeing Bruce's parents killed again is not redoing the origin.  Begins is still the only Batman origin story.  I do feel every version of the Batman mythos needs it's own version of that defining moment.  And the connection between Batman and Superman begins with how they are both orphans in different ways.

And last but not least I wanted Superman to win the title fight.  Even though I'm more of a Batman fan overall I did not want the expected DKR outcome again.  I guess what I like about how they made peace wouldn't work if Superman had won, but still.

And that just reminds me why I initial opposed a Vs film in the first place.  What I wanted was The World's Finest, or Dark Knight over Metropolis.

That Trailer blew my Mind

I have never been pumped by a trailer, even TDK's trailers.

Words can't describe how I'm feeling now.

While I'd been optimistic about this movie I did have concerns.  Now those concerns are gone.

In 2008 and for awhile after I thought there was no way I'd ever be as excited for a movie as I was for The Dark Knight. Not unless a live action Legend of Zelda film was ever made.

but now, that I saw that, I have have called The Dark Knight the greatest film every made repeatedly.  Think this will be better.

This IS THE Movie I have waited my entire life for.  Star Wars will hold me over, but this is the main course.

Comic Book based Audio Dramas

Most people know of the old Superman Radio show from the 40s.  Back then Radio was the only way to get media performed by Actors into your homes.

What isn't so well known is that while they're not always on the Radio, audio dramas still exist, and some famous DC Comics story-lines have become Audio Dramas.  I myself learned this in the last 24 hours pretty much.

One reason they are missed is that they are often labeled Audiobooks on Amazon, which they are technically.  But they are not just a narrator reading a prose story to you, like the Silmarilion audio book (which I bet is the most frequently used Audio book for Youtube source material).

These are stories made like Radio plays, with voice actors playing roles.  And also sound effects.

I'm unsure how many if any are actually licensed by DC Comics.  Few have Wikipedia pages (none are on IMDB but neither is the classic Radio show).  Only 3 that all had the same director are on a website called AudioDramaWiki.  At least one on it's official website seems to define itself as not affiliated with DC Comics in anyway.  Yet it seems that one (unless there is more then one of No Man's Land) is sold on Amazon, Amazon generally doesn't sell things not officially licensed.

I have listened to only one thus far, it's the Death and Return of Superman storlyine, but some of They Saved Luthor's Brain and other earlier storlyines are covered in the first half hour to set things up.  That first half hour takes the most liberties, once the proper storlyine is in play, it cuts stuff out of course but what it covers is a word for word dramatization.

Of the stuff cut out some scenes I miss more then others, mainly a couple key Lex scenes.

The first half hour is the kind of material I have more patience for then most, (it's 2 hours and 37 minutes total) lots of exposition explaining how the (then) current Superman mythos work to non comic readers, including key Chekovs guns.  There are also cool moments there however, introducing the form of Lex Luthor least well known to non Comic Readers, the Lex Luthor Jr version.

But once the actual Doomsday battle starts it becomes a very fast paced intense and emotional story, and very suspenseful.  A story being told in sound only can stimulate the brain in unique ways, making you use your imagination like reading does, but still giving you the emotional investment that only a performance can make possible.  It's something I think more people should try out.

The Sound effects are phenomenal.

The actors I think were great, they're in no way confusable with the kind of acting the DC animated projects go for, but I think just as rewarding to listen to.  No one is Orson Wells, but they all I think could have carried a Mercury Radio play with him.

Lois Lane is the most perfect, so often Lois and other female leads get labaled the weakest link in various CB projects.  I don't tend to join that bandwagon nearly as often as is popular, but sometimes I do feel male writers and casting directors don't know how to handle iconic female characters.  This Lois voice was to me the perfect voice for who Lois was at this time, (this was made when the story-line was very recent history, in the early 90s).  And I may even be willing to say the best Lois performance of all, but there are others I like.

Clark Kent/Superman's voice can't compete with Tim Dally or Geroge Newborne.  And would probably ultimately lose to Bud Collyer also.  And even though he's done Superman only once I'll say the same of the lead in Superman Unbound.  But he works well, and follows the tradition of changing his voice between Clark and Superman.  The same actor does the Visored Superman, with a very different tone, and is really good at that role.

Jimmy, Perry, Turpin, Sawyer, Westfield, XX, Guardian, Cat, Tana Moon and Hamilton and other small roles were all good.

The character this indisputably dramatizes better then anything else is Doomsday himself.  It seems the beast infamous for being the one thing that could Kill Superman always disappoints when brought to life visually, animation or live action.  But here, only hearing his roars and the damage he causes, it really sells that this is an unstoppable force of destruction.

The Supergirl voice is distinct from what you might be used to for Supergirl but well done.  Thing is without the grander context of her character's arc (this is the Matrix not Kara), the problomaticness of her seemingly blind devotion to Lex is harder to handwave away.

Only voice I really dislike is Superboy's, I do not buy that as a real 15 year old at all.  Cyborg Superman however was played by the same Actor and that voice was really really cool.

For Steel, at first I doubted that was an actual African American actor playing him, and my doubts remain, but in time I came to believe he was that character.  I'm no expert at discerning ethnicity from voices however.

I shall finish on Lex, who was awesome.  Since only one actor for Lex Luthor was in the credits, I shall assume both Lex Luthor voices heard are the same actor, and it certainly sounds plausible.  But the accent isn't the only way his voice changes, as the original Lex he also sounds older.

I'm glad they indeed used an Australian Accent, at first I was unsure this was the kind of Australian accent I wanted, but it grew on me pretty quickly.  The voice for the original Lex doesn't disappear entirely after transformation, unlike in the comics it returns whenever he fully drops his figurative mask.

The two Lex scenes missing that I really miss are when he snaps and starts beating up Doomsday's body, the onlookers think he's mourning Superman, but he's really angry he didn't get to Kill him.  The other I can't begrudge them as much for since it's after where they closed their narrative, is when he is convinced the real Superman is real.

What remains is the scene of him Alone in Superman's Tomb after reclaiming the body from Cadmus.  In the Comic he also plays this as his victory over Superman, but it's clearly really just a consolation prize, getting to bury him since he couldn't kill him.  My only gripe with Lex in this Audio Drama is that it seems like Superman's Death by Doomsday was something Lex was totally okay with, the usage of the Only One Allowed to Defeat You trope is gone.

Some people have expressed concern that the Audio Drama doesn't address how Clark Kent's presumed death is resolved.  I feel the answer to that dilemma was sufficiently set up in advance, in one scene at the Daily Planet.

The Credits at the end are spoken to the audience, I think by the same Actor who is Lois.  What I like is how enthusiastic she was about it, she did not seem to view it as a chore.

Soon I intend to listen to the one for Knightfall which had the same director but a different story structure being 3 minute episodes.  Unlike above, this is a storlyine for which, I may kill a lot of my Nerd Cred here, I haven't read the Comics.  Only glimpse I've had into that Batman era is in Robin Flying Solo.

There are plenty that still have no Audio Dramas, but I would love to see made. Bruce Wayne Murder/Fugative, Robin Unmasked, Batman War Drums, War Games and War Crimes.  And Robin and Batgirl's adventures in Bludhaven after War Games (for Under the Red Hood the animated movie is adequate, my only gripe is not mentioning any of that prior history, but that's because those storlyine are more interesting to me anyway). It'd be cool if they could do those Batman stroylines with Bruce Greenwood.  And the Shipper in me really wants the StephCass moments not to be cut.

Outside of Batman, I want Identity Crisis, OMAC Project, and Villains United.  The Wolfman Perez Teen Titans storlyines, and the Geof Johns era Teen Titans as well.

Update:  I've listened to Knightfall

It has Michael Gough, as Alfred, the same Alfred as the Burton-Shumacker movies.  That's really surreal, hearing the definitive Alfred of the 90s in something actually based on the comics.  This was made before Forever so he interacted with Tim Drake before he did Dick Grayson, and most people have no idea.

Upon further research the Actor playing Steel was Black, but he wasn't African American, these were produced in England, I think his voice has that awkward vibe as first possibly because he had more trouble doing an American accent then the others.

I expected that an only 3 hours long Knightfall adaptation wouldn't include Robin Flaying Solo, but it did have one scene from it.  That's a novel I got mainly for Stephanie Brown, who I observed early on wasn't in the cast for this.

About the character of Jean-Paul Valley, as a famous Billionaire Playboy once said, a guy who dresses up as a Bat clearly has issues.  I loved that they named this French catholic Order after Alexandre Dumas.

I see they borrowed that whole psychologist condemning Batman and defending the Akrham inmates routine from DKR.

It was pretty awesome, the Bane Voice it not like any you've heard before and it's great.  Both Batmans were done well.  Renee Montoya and a number of female characters are the same actress as Lois Lane from the Death of Superman, and she did very well.  However her Lady Shiva accent was kind of offensive.

I'm gonna make perhaps the most controversial claim in this post right now.  For a voice only performance of The Joker, I like this guy better then Mark Hamil.  Hamil is great, he got better over the years, but this guy was truly psychotic.  He's not better then Ledger but miles ahead of Nicholson.

I commented on the Credits sequence for the Superman one.  This one is done differently, and I don't want to spoil it.