No most modern Jokers are not bad rip offs of Heath Ledger's.

At most I would say maybe The Joker we got briefly in The Batman and it's deleted scene can be criticized that way.  But given how little we have to go off there I'm reserving judgment. 

The high profile Joker we've gotten most egregious criticized this way in Jared Leto's in Suicide Squad.  I've already talked about how Jared Leto's Joker is supposed to be Cringe, and pointed people to both Jack Saint's video on the topic and 16 Attempts to Talk to You about Suicide Squad. 

But as far accusing the performance on ripping off Ledger's goes, i really don't see it, he doesn't o that thing his tonge. At most the fact that both sometimes annunciate certain words weirdly could be seen as similar. 

The perception that so many post Ledger Jokers are just pale imitations on Ledger's Joker is really just people saying quietly that they're upset the Joker hasn't gone back to being more of the same they usually got before Ledger's Joker. 

Caesar Romero's Joker, Jack Nicholson's Joker and Mark Hamil's in Batman The Animated Series, as different form each other as they may seem in execution are each in my view the same basic kind of Joker.  For each of them the Clown/Comedy gimmick antics are a means to an end of conventional criminal goals.  And The Joker's has been written like that in The Comics sometimes, he was like that in A Death in The Family much to my personal disappointment when I first read it. 

And those three were the only particularly mainstream popular takes on The Joker well known to most non Comic Readers before 2008. The Dark Knight was the first time we got a Joker for whom the Madness was the ends and the conventional criminal activity was the means. 

But The Comics had introduced takes on The Joker who didn't have conventional criminal goals at least by the 80s with The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke.  These stories were quite philosophically different from each other, Miller and Moore allegedly had an argument about The Joker with Moore saying The Joker is Insane and Miller saying The Joker is Evil. There's also Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum A Serious House on Serious Earth.

But even non Comic Readers had gotten a few tastes of this kind of Joker, just off the beaten path of the mainstream. Kerry Shale's performance in the 90s BBC Radio Drama adaptation of Knightfall. Andrew Koenig in the 2003 fan film Batman: Dead End. Even Mark Hamil arguably got his first shot at becoming a better class of criminal in Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker. It is Koenig's performance in particular that I suspect people would be calling a Ledger's Joker knock off if it came after 2008 rather then before. 

The irony is Jared Leto's Joker in terms of what we can see of what he usually does is arguably back to being the regular Criminal with a gimmick take on The Joker that dominated what we got before 2008. But with the added flavor that he's a cringey edgelord who likes to think of himself as something grander then he actually is. 

My point is every time people talk about the history of The Joker in a way that implies Ledger's take is the sole source of every remotely "Edgy" Joker to come since, they are demonstrating their ignorance of how "Edgy" The Joker already was. 

That includes when some makes a deep philosophical video essays founded on this premise treating the Crigeyness of Leto's Joker as a failure rather then the intention. 

April Anime 2025 Week 2

The Introductory post of this series.

https://mithrandirolorin.blogspot.com/2025/04/anime-year-2025-2026.html

My Anilist Profile.

https://anilist.co/user/KuudereKun888/

And my Social Media

https://c.im/@KuudereKun

The Pilot of Mobile Suit Gundam GQuuuuuuX on PrimeVideo was good, and has a great English Dub Cast as well.  Looks like the part of the movie people were calling Episode 0 is actually going to be  episode 2 next week (Wednesday in Japan but Tuesday in the US).

Episode 9 of Loner Life In Another World was pretty good. 

Aemuk M.D. episode 11 introduced a new Denny’s variation, Bemmy’s spelled with Green Text.

On April 9th I finished Re:Zero season 3, it was great, and it looks like season 4 is gonna be pretty good too.

Rock is A Lady’s Modesty episode 2 was quite amusing. 

Moonrise on Netflix was a pretty decent Sci-Fi story.

The last episode of Guild Receptionist was decent.  I give the show as a whole an 8 out of 10. 

Detective Conan episode 1158 was an okay episode.  I was expecting it to be the tie-in to the new movie since it's the last new episode before the movie releases in Japan, but it didn’t end with an allusion to the film’s events.  However I can tell next week’s 1159 will be since it has the same writer as the movie.

Update: I just watched the first episode of Lazarus rather late on the Adult Swim app, and it looks like the second episode will drop today so I may add another update.  It was pretty entertaining, can't guarantee I'll stick with it but it has a good start.

Update: Episode 2 was also good.  The Suicide Squad comparisons are inevitable, but this this exact story couldn't actually be told in the DC Universe.

DC Animated projects I’ve seen recently.

As much as I present myself as Enthusiastic about becoming an Anime Zealot I do sometimes feel some guilt for how much I’ve semi Abandoned by older Nerdy interests.  But I haven’t abandoned them entirely.

The Crisis on Infinite Earths Trilogy is fine but I still feel disappointed.  I was fine with the first film not really leaving the Tomorrow Verse much at all.  But I was hoping by the end there would be more from prior Animated DC Universes than just some token cameos.

But even with the token cameos at the end I was disappointed by how few.  Why no love for the Fleischer Shorts? The actual birth of DC in Animation and very important to the history of Animation beyond that.  Or The Batman and Batman The Brave and The Bold which have more vibrant fan bases then the DCAMU verse.

And all the DCAU got was Batman and The Joker (and a Batman Beyond who may or may not actually be the same Terry).  What about the STAS cast who were also staples?  Or Static Shock which is important to the history of Black representation in the Superhero Genre?

I still haven’t seen much of My Adventures With Superman.  I want to change that but I remain cynical of Western Cartoons trying to pass as Anime.

Meanwhile Suicide Squad Isekai is vindicating the optimism I had for it from it’s inception.

Batman The Caped Crusader I wound up liking a lot, and I kinda went in biased against it, feeling very cynical about the implication of Timm saying he wanted to go further then BTAS ever could.  It turns out that really wasn’t anything to be worked up about and all the episodes are pretty great.

That said, I do have some criticisms.  But rest assured nothing that a certain type of whiner is going to complain about bothered me.  I consider one of the literary ancestors of The Penguin to be Casper Gutman of The Maltese Falcon and of the 3 movie adaptations made of that novel, the 1935 film Satan met a Lady already had a woman play Gutman’s role.  So the way I see it the possibility of a Lady Penguin was always on the table.

I kinda hope Barbara Gordon as a Defense Attorney leads to them bringing back a certain forgotten Barbara storyline of the 70s.

I’m glad they went the uniquely nuanced route they did with Harvey Dent, I just……

Spoiler Warning.

…I wish they hadn't killed him off.

With Harvey Dent so much of the discourse is about his origin story and then attempts to Redeem him that may or may not succeed.  Which is all interesting but I’m tired of him actually being an effective Supervillain getting skipped over.

I like when a Cool Intimidating Villain is Metaphorically Castrated in a sequel, adaptation, reboot or remake.

In the original 1997 TV Anime Revolutionary Girl Utena the character of Akio aka End Of The World is a very cool and charismatic villain, he needs to be for that original version of the Utena story to work the way it does.

But then Ikahara made a movie called Adolescence of Utena that was a reimagining of the entire premise of Utena but also maybe ambiguously a Sequel somehow???  Either way this more than any other Anime Film borne from a TV Anime it is not a stand alone work of art, every detail is wrapped up in the Symbolism codified by the original show.

In the movie Akio is no longer cool or charismatic, his first scene makes a Joke out of him and then later he’s presented as absolutely Pathetic.  And this was a deliberate artistic choice with deliberate meaning behind it.  VraiKaiser in their discussions of the movie breaks it down way better than I can.  

https://vraikaiser.com/2014/01/20/i-know-why-she-turns-into-a-car/

https://vraikaiser.com/2015/07/04/the-adolescence-of-utena/

Originally of course a good chunk of the fanbase had a negative reaction to this decision,
"how dare you take the coolness away from the cool character I liked". This sentiment was in Jacob Chapman’s review of the movie back when he was known as JesuOtaku.  However in this case continuing to feel that way has become more rare, WhiningAboutYuri on Tumblr was very critical of the movie but supported this specific choice.  And it wouldn’t surprise me if even Jacob himself has repented of that old bad take.

However The Joker is a different story, that character most people still want to see treated with respect.  JackSaint’s video on Suicide Squad’s take on The Joker argues that Leto’s Joker is supposed to be an uncool cringey edge lord, which is also independently hinted at in Josh McNamee’s Sixteen Attempts to talk to you about "Suicide Squad".  

It is a good idea to remind people that the real life Jokers of the world aren’t cool or charismatic but pathetic losers, and the same is true of Adult Men in positions of Authority who take advantage of teenagers.  That doesn’t actually make them not dangerous, but it does make them less glamorous.

However there is a certain kind of fan who identifies with such characters even if they would never approve of their actions in real life. And there is a not insignificant overlap between these fans and the kind who become Internet Neo-Reactionaries.

I’m not arguing the “cool” takes on these characters shouldn't exist, I do believe most people can separate fantasy from reality and those who can’t have deeper problems than how they read fiction.  I’m simply defending the innate value in taking that coolness away from them.  The intended message behind having a Pathetic villain is more potent when done with one previously seen as cool then it would be with one who was always depicted as pathetic.

Now for both of those examples I’ve already demonstrated that I’m far from the first to make this defense of them.  However as far as I’m aware I’m still the only person to read the Netflix Cowboy Bebop’s take on Vicious this way.  And even if I find out others have, I'm still confident I can claim to be among the first since I was reading him this way the day of the show's release. Largely because I was already familiar with the two above discourses, so I was prepared.  But if you’ve seen someone else talk about Vicious this way please link me to it because I would want read or watch it.

Netflix Vicious is entirely driven by how insecure he is in his masculinity, a problem that began with his daddy issues.  He is all through the show exposed to be a manchild who wants to be seen as intimidating far more than he actually is intimidating.  And the people who have that problem in real life who also watch Anime want to be like the Vicious of the original Cowboy Bebop or some other similar kind of Anime villain.  I’m not saying everyone who had a knee jerk negative reaction to this reinterpretation of Vicious did so because they are that kind of person, but I am saying this is why they should reconsider the value of this artistic choice.

Now it’s only with Ikuhara that I’m confident this reading was intentional.  Ayer and Leto have both said things that lead me to suspect that this isn’t what they intended.  With Netflix Bebop it does seem to be stated outright quite a bit that's what the message is, but you can never be certain with Netflix  But it doesn’t matter because the Author is Dead, this is a valid reading of the text whether those who wrote it like it or not.

And I want to see this done more.  As someone who’s devoted a chunk of their online identity to being a Star Wars Prequel Apologist I should show I’m not a hypocrite by saying I’d support Palpatine being given this treatment.  Of course I’m already Free from hypocrisy here, Batman is my oldest fandom and before I went full Weeb I considered The Dark Knight the greatest movie ever made. During the late 2000s and early 2010s I loved quoting Heath Ledger’s Joker to seem cool as much as anyone else did.  Yet I didn’t have a knee jerk negative reaction to Leto’s Joker, I didn’t in 2016 understand yet why I liked it, but I do think on some level this was always why.

In the context of Anime however I think the problematically Idolized Villain who needs to be taken down a peg the most is Light Yagami. And maybe to the fans of Netflix Death Note that’s why that movie works.  But the thing is there are lots of reasons I don’t like that movie, all three movies or shows I praised above have a lot more to like about them then just doing the thing I named this post after.

More importantly though the way in which Light Turner is Pathetic for most of the film functionally exonerates him of being fully culpable for most of his sins, his psycho girlfriend is the real monster and she is cool and charismatic (or at least the movie wants her to be).  The way the three villains above are Pathetic highlights how morally horrible they are.

But also the three examples I praised are not at their core entirely different characters from the prior versions that so many people found cool, we’re simply seeing them now from different angles, in different contexts.  They do act differently in ways that would make them hard to see as in the same continuity, but the most basic character description is the same, or at least can be.  Light Turner lacks any actual similarities to Light Yagami. I don't see him as a different interpretation of the same character, he simply is a different character.

Suicide Squad Isekai has Anime Writers

That's why I think it has a better chance at feeling like a true Anime then other recently announced Anime takes on Western Nerd properties like The War of The Rohirrim or Scot Pilgrim.

I know it seems counterintuitive to some people but the way it's Animated and Drawn is not the main reason I like Anime so much.  I have developed a deep fondness for various Anime Art styles, but it's because I already associate them with so many stories and characters I like that give it that meaning for me.

Principally the two people slated to write Suicide Squad Isekai are the main writers behind Re;Zero and Vivy the later of which I just watched.  Both are very good and do I think show them to be the best Isekai writers to take on this section of the DC Universe.

Teppai Nagatsuki also wrote Warlords of Sigrdrifa which I liked a lot.  

Eiji Umehare wrote Pokémon: The Power of Us which is definitely the best of the most recent Pokémon movies.

People who care about the Director may be concerned that this seems to be the first thing Eri Osada has directed, but I think it'll be fine.

The Music is gonna be from Kenichiro Suehiro who also did the music for Re:Zero and Uncle from Another World and The Eminence in Shadow.  I'd have preferred Yuki Kajiura but those shows sound perfectly fine.

So all in all I'm excited for this project.

Live Action adaptations of Anime should be Colorful

I've already made a few posts on the issues of Westernizing and White Washing Anime.  I want to talk about other issues now.

The Anime Man did a video on why he feels adapting Anime into Live Action simply can't work.  I think he's completely wrong.  What's really amusing is when he suggests Western Superheroes Comics are more grounded in reality then Anime and Manga and that is why they can work in Live Action more.  Well as someone who is a Nerd of both, I can tell you that no, in fact Anime is generally far more grounded in reality then DC or Marvel comics.

For comparing to Western Superhero Comics, I like to remind people it took 40 years to get Superman The Movie, almost that for Spider-Man to get his first good film.  But not till 2008 we got TDK and the MCU.   Anime has arguably been around as long as Superman, but few of the franchises people want to adapt have been just yet.  There were plenty of bad adaptations of all those Superheroes before we got the good ones.

Gigguk did a video where, among other things, he said we should focus on ones that can work in Live Action.  I agree that plenty work better then others, and for the time being I wouldn't bother with Utena or Madoka.  But focus more on ones like Noir, Madlax, Evangelion, Lupin III, Haruhi, Pretty Cure, Gundam or Code Geass.  Or remove the Fantasy/SciFi altogether and just do Lucky Star and Strawberry Panic.

But we can do a lot with Live Action movies now, so there is no reason to inherently leave out the really visionary stuff.  While we've yet to have an exactly great LA Anime adaptation, plenty of Live Action films have been Anime like while being great or at least pretty good.  Pretty much everything from the Wachowscis (see Digi's video on Speed Racer), Edge of Tomorrow, Pacific Rim, The Wolverine, Suicide Squad (I could argue that all Joker's henchmen were Weebs), Sucker Punch, and the Star Wars Prequels.  And on TV Pretty Little Liars.

I agree that it is okay to change certain things to fit the medium.  But the last thing I'm inclined to agree needs to be changed is how Colorful Anime is.  Plenty of Live Action movies have been bright and colorful, yet everyone thinks a Movie version of an Anime or comic means a grittier more monochrome version.  Hence we get an annoying colorless Power Rangers film.  Comic Book fans want our movies to be as colorful as the Comics and that's why many were annoyed by Man of Steel and embraced the MCU, Deadpool and Suicide Squad.

In particular I mean the issue of Hair Colors.  People love to make fun of Anime Hair "Guess who's the main character" memes are endless.  But people in real life do sometimes dye their hair colors like that, so this idea that "no Hair naturally looks like that so you have to abandon it in the LA version" is nonsense to me.

I mentioned Noir first up above as one I'd like to see in Live Action, but I kinda only trust myself to do it. There the main two have plausible hair colors for their ethnicities (Blonds may be rare in Corsica but not unheard of).  But Chloe, Lady Silvana, and the Poisonous Insect all have Anime hair, and for Chloe especially I will not be able to accept anyone claiming to be that character with normal looking hair.

And that sometimes it just being an unusual hair color for Japan causes it's rejection annoys me even more.  I tolerated two Japanese actresses not dying their hair Blonde to play Misa Amane because I assumed the inevitable Western version would give us a blonde Misa.  And now Netflix has spit right in my face with a Misa who looks like Bella Swan.  I've seen lots of pictures of real Asian women with Blonde hair, I'm assuming they're all dyed but that's besides the point, they all look beautiful, there is no reason to assume a Blonde Asian in a movie will inherently look awkward.  Back to Misa, she needs to be Blonde or Japanese, you can change one of those and still work but you can't change both.

Often the hair color has symbolic meaning.  I was actually quite annoyed in JesuOtaku's video with KyleKallgrenBHH about the Utena movie when Kyle attempts to speculate on what the Pink hair means and JesuOtaku just shoots Kyle down with "that's just Anime".  In Utena the use of Color everywhere including in hair is meaningful.  VraiKassier broke it down in their Anyalsis series on the first ReCap episode (you shouldn't skip the ReCaps in Utena).

Color Coding: You may have noticed that the students of Ohtori are a veritable rainbow of the color palette, and that I’ve been alluding to that fact quite frequently over the past few weeks. Well, it’s not (just) because ridiculous rainbow hair is a hallmark of shoujo. Our common thematic color palette:
Green: Envy and loyalty (a great many of the colors have dual meanings or applications throughout the series). Saionji’s color, tied to the young man fixated on his own weak inadequacies and desperate to possess that which others consider important – but also almost blindly devoted to those he’s considered ‘essential’ (this latter reading also ties into Akio’s fiancée).
Blue: Intellect and distance. Miki and Kozue’s color, the characters who might be at once called the most clear headed and rational and yet also the most divorced from their true desires by the complexity of their schemes.
Orange: Miracles and delusion. Flip sides of the same coin, reflected by inner strength of conviction versus fear and an inability to acknowledge one’s own desires.
Yellow: Innocence and childishness. Through both Tsuwabuki and Nanami, strong emotions for others can be either selfish or selfless (and are always heartfelt but rarely circumspect or self aware)
Red: Power, used either to aid or subjugate others. A color Touga possesses but Akio clothes himself in, revealing his far more advanced ability to manipulate power to suit his image and his ends (also the color of the Rose Bride, nodding to Anthy’s immense power even if control of it has been taken from her)
Brown: The mundane – the most frequent hair color of the ‘normal’ students, from Wakaba’s grounded support to the overshadowed members of Nanami’s gang.
White: Purity and potential. The prince’s color, which also dominates the color scheme of Ohtori’s uniforms – while other colors might make their way in, beginning to have sway, we mustn’t forget that our cast is still very young, and that they have the potential to learn and change even still. You’ll notice that Mikage and Utena, the two closest to ‘graduating,’ have almost no white on their outfits).
Purple: Corruption and loss. Anthy’s signature color, signifying the pain she’s suffered through her sacrifice. Purple also figures heavily into moments that’ve been influenced by the siblings in the name of the dueling game, and Mikage sees Ohtori through purple-tinted glasses.
Pink: Harmony between power and ideals, a self-conviction mixed with compassion for others (Utena and Mikage both have pink hair, and Anthy’s final outfit is predominantly pink).

So no, the Color isn't meaningless.  Other Anime may use the same Colors differently.  But I suspect only the most bottom of the barrel are being completely meaningless.

Speaking of KyleKallgrenBHH, after watching his video on Kurosawa's RAN.  I thought about what he said on Kurosawa's use of Color in his later films, and wondered if that might have influenced the way Anime would go on to use Color?  And I was reminded of this recently in The Last Jedi's teaser trailer, where we had the weird contrast between the barren desert like planet but the bright Red Smoke/Sand/Dust whatever it is behind the ships.  It's a good sign if this means Star Wars directors are still drawing on Kurosawa.

P.S./Postscript:  Evangelion.

I mentioned Eva as one that could work in Live Action better then others and that might be the most controversial claim in that list.  People have come to remember Eva for how confusing and existential it got.  But the original appeal was that it was a more grounded and gritty approach to the Mecha vs Kaiju genre.  Pacific Rim drew on Eva specifically, but is ultimately far more cartoony.  And much of the trippy stuff in later episodes happened because the Budget ran low.

I know Anno himself has said Eva inherently only works in Animation.  But Anno himself seems to have forgotten what Eva's original appeal was from looking at the history of Eva movies, both old and ReBuild.  The more they become something harder to conceivably do in Live Action, the more the fans think they suck.

But the first ReBuild could just as easily have been a Live Action film.  Though more directly remaking those episodes would be better.  First change I'd make is not shortening it. The idea that he had to cut stuff to make it fit a film length when it's only based on 6 episodes is insulting to me.  To me a film that has less run-time then 6 episodes of a TV Anime series is inherently not worth the price of admission, even without the issue of comparing to source material.  That's a topic I already covered.

The thing about Critics is knowing how to anyalize what they say

I've always been a bit of an Anti-Critic person, especially the main mainstream kind of critics.  2016 was a year in which taking such an attitude became particularly controversial, some of my fellow DC fans claimed a silly Disney conspiracy in negative reviews of DC films.

There is no direct correlation either way in whether or not a critically received film will be one I also like.  But when it comes to Genre films it's clear many are inherently disconnected from most of what casual viewers care about.

What I've come to learn is that the key is in knowing how to discern what they say, why they did or didn't like it.

I watched one YouTube video where a guy gave a positive review of the Comic Book Trade Paper Back Batman Black Mirror. A comic I haven't read.  And I concluded from what he said that this is a story I'd hate and shouldn't bother with.  Meanwhile I've had the exact opposite experience listening to his negative comments on Grant Morrison's Batman run.  But on plenty other Comics I've agreed with this person's opinion.

I've had similar experiences listening to YouTubers talk about Anime.

Digibro had a video recently where he said the differences between different tastes in fiction is being different in what flaws you can tolerate and what flaws you can't.  I disagree however.  Because the thing with especially the Star Wars Prequels is that so very often what I love is exactly what the haters hate, I don't respond to the criticisms because those very things are why I like Star Wars to begin with.

Now I have not yet watched Sword Art Online.  It's an Anime I've been putting off watching, I've decided I will try it soon, I'm not sure what I'll think.  But I know more about it going in then I have few other Animes.  Mostly from listening to very negative opinions of it.  Here I do not really hear the same things I hear from Prequel Haters.

Not once have I heard a complaint be something that is exactly what I'm looking for in Anime.  Some are things I'm not bothered by, like Plot Holes, Incest, and general Anime Cliches.  But also much of it speaks to exactly what often frustrates me in Anime, from gratuitous fan-service, to pointless sexual assault.

However these critics do mention occasional good things, and some are things that might win more points from me then they would others.   And I already know I like the cast it's Dub has.  And I really like it's composer, Noir/Madlax to Madoka to Fate/Zero, all great Anime Music.

I notice that the people who hate SAO the most, often really liked Asuna as a character, and are upset at how she gets treated.  That is certainly something I can relate to.

So I'll give it a shot, I'm expecting either something I'll hate, or something I'll enjoy with heavy reservations.  If I feel like talking publicly about it it'll probably be on my Tumblr, where I'll use an SAO Tag, and/or SAO Hate.

Suicide Squad was awesome

It was a fun, emotional and fast paced entertaining film.  Far more fun then Batman V Superman but not as artsy, which is what I prefer.

Will Smith was great, and Amanda Waller was perfect.  But Harley Quinn was the best.

Some might complain about the story structure early on, but I don't care, the film fits together better then The Godfather Part II did.

I've seen people talk about how The Joker only has 10 minutes of screen time.  As I've said before The Joker is a less is more character, since Leto's Joker is going to be in far more movies then any previous Live Action Joker, it's good with start with only a taste.  Batman also cna be a less is more character and that's why I loved his scenes in this movie.

The negative reviews for this should be ignored, the criticisms are the opposite of what Batman V Superman's were.  This is a movie that pretentious critics won't understand but Comic Book fans will.

This to me far more so then any MCU film feels like we're seeing a Comic Book universe brought to life.

See this movie, I highly recommend it, don't like the negative nellys be vindicated.

I could care less about Suicide Squad being PG13 and not R

The recent announcement has once again riled up those who worship the R rating.

I personally have as I've matured/grown up, grown less fond of cursing and graphic sex and violence in media.  And I intentionally did not preface that with "gratuitous", even scenarios where it truly does fit the story I still feel it's better left off screen.  I firmly oppose government censorship, but I'm all for self-restraint.

For one thing it is a scientific fact that fiction forcing the audience to use their imagination can help make them smarter.  That's why reading is good for the brain.

I probably have more tolerance for cursing then the others, because sometimes some people are good at swearing in a way that is very funny.  That's the thing, it's only good to me when it's done for Humor, my life experience has lead me to firmly reject that it ever helps makes things more dramatic or intense, and certainly that it's inherently unrealistic not to swear in certain scenarios.  Because swearing is pretty rare in my real life experiences, so I find excessive swearing in fiction and music funny, but not believable.  I tend to find it funny even if it's not meant to be, like Jackman's F Bomb in The Wolverine.

The Dark Knight and Casino Royal are often the default examples for how Dark and Gritty a PG13 film can be.  But ya know what I consider just as unsettling if not more so then those, Revenge of The Sith.  Officially that film just barely crossed the line into not qualifying for PG, but I don't care, that all the dismembering is bloodless does not make it any less grimm, in fact scientifically it would be unrealistic if they were bleeding since we know the Lightsabers singe everything.

And then we can talk about all the old classic Film Noirs of the 40s and 50s, none of which are graphic.  And even the Pre-Code stuff people talk about would still not be R worthy to modern standards.  Or even what The Longest Day did with a G rating.

The Dark Knight Returns animated movies actually went further then the Comics thanks to the Joker's gun toting spree killing.  And still only got PG13.

The MPAA doesn't care how dark or disturbing the themes and tone are.  It just looks at purely arbitrary check lists, more then 1 F word gets an R even if it's otherwise indistinguishable from Frozen.  And they care more about Sex then Violence.  Getting an R rating purely for the violence, which is what Suicide Squad would have to do to qualify, would require an amount of graphic blood and gore that would only be distracting from the plot.

The original Halloween would besides it's one nude scene be absolutely a PG13 film today.  I know this because the When a Stranger Calls remake (which I love) actually does MORE then it in terms of swearing and violence and suspense and was PG13.

One person I've seen outright express he doesn't want children there with him as he's watching a movie about Psychopaths.  Well legally the kids can be there regardless if the Parents are with them.  I for one want parents to stop letting the MPAA make parenting decisions for them.  A parent should be free to take their kid to a porno theater if they choose to.

Harley Quinn was created for a Saturday Morning children's Cartoon show.  It was a well written show that cleverly included mature themes, but was still officially a kids show that was watched by kids, I know because I was one of them.  So Children have as much right to see her Big Screen debut as anyone else.  Pretentious older comic book fans do not own her.

Dammit DC, stop doing this.

I've been catching up on lost time on my none DC related Blogging subjects while trying to find out how to put into word how wowed I am by closing episodes of The Flash's First Season.

And then I read this.

When the reports that the movie was why Deadshot was killed off came out I chose not to believe them, now I'm pissed.

I expressed how excited I was about what DC is doing on Television.  I said I was glad they are separate universes both from each other and the Cinematic Universe.

But the entire point of WHY I was glad for that was that we could see different takes on different characters.

I thought we were done with the days of the Bat embargo and Smallville having all kinds of limitations on it.

I'm fine with the notion that the big three, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, can't appear on TV shows (in their fully formed forms) as long as everything else is fair game.

I'm sick of DC always giving the movies first dibs, and then being afraid TV will cause confusion.  The know the animated projects we don't get confused by, or the Comics themselves which aren't even all the same canon due to DC bringing the Multiverse back.

Arrow had a 5 year plan mapped out in advance.  I'm sure not every detail, but a lot of basic things.  And I haven't exactly been thrilled with much of what they've done each season. But to then because a movie is green lite take away assets they were banking on is just plain mean.

And they are being illogically selective.  The Flash is the lead and title character of both a TV show and am upcoming Movie, and both Flashes are Barry Allen.  They aren't afraid that will be confusing.  But recurring characters are confusing?  One Floyd Lawton is white and one is black but they are afraid people won't be able to tell the difference?

This happens endlessly with Iconic characters who are no longer copyrighted.  We have lots of Sherlock Holmeses and Draculas and Frankensteins all over pop culture.  But we can only handle one Harley Quinn or Deadshot?

I don't even think Harley Quinn on Arrow would make sense, she can't exist without The Joker, The Joker can't exist without Batman, and I prefer no Batman or Superman in the DCWverse.

But it's the principle of the thing.

So I'm obviously not saying I want each television DC Universe to have one of every character.  But there are certain DC characters who it's in their DNA to be not limited to any one subsection of the DCU, Amanda Waller, assassins like Deadshot, organizations like HIVE.  The League of Assassins, while it's head is mainly a Batman villain it does have tentacles all over.  These are lesser known characters they have a created a great chance to show in a short time how versatile they are by letting different writers do different things.

Instead it looks like the reason the Teen Titans won't have Roy Harper or Wally West is because a different channel has dibs on them.  Having Dick and Barbara won't be seen as stepping on Gotham's toes however.  (And no Donna or Cassie because of weird contract stuff concerning Marston and Wonder Woman, but I suspect that'll be the same for the movies.)

Maybe their logic is that it's because they're lesser known then the big 2 and their supporting cast? We already have multiple Alfreds and Robins and Batgirls and Jimmy Olsens as cultural icons, from the movies alone before this new string of shows started.  But Roy Harper might seem to non comic readers that he was written for..... I forget the actors name.

But Gotham and Arrow both had their own Dollmaker without it being an issue?  They were in different seasons though, and now they're both dead.

It's all so stupid.

Look DC, I'm excited for your Movies, and for your TV shows.  I have a lot of faith in where you're going now in-spite of past problems, and have expressed that excitement to your harshest critics.  But if you continue to be afraid that some of your properties can't handle both, while consistently giving first dips to the medium that we actually spend less time in.  Your going to neuter a lot of your potential.

More on how wrong the perceived difference between Marvel and DC movies is

On both sides it's the Marvel Vs DC people doing this the most, or at least they do it to the one they don't like.  As someone who likes all the movies but a very few (none in either current Cinematic Universe) I feel I have a more unbiased perception.

First off since Guardians of the Galaxy came out it's like people have been judging the entire MCU based on that film, and really a flanderized version of it, as if nothing was taken seriously and it had no depth, which is clearly wrong.  No other MCU film is as comedic, the amount of humor in them isn't really much more then you get in the DC films, DC just doesn't put the jokes in the trailers as much.

And the people praising what Marvel does over DC, go on about DC being ashamed of their properties because they seemingly tone things down to make them more realistic.  But the MCU films have also watered things down to make them less comicbooky, Zola wasn't actually a living Brain like Krang, the Guardians of the Galaxy had all the most Superpowered members of it's team removed. and the Collector was completely weakened.  Plenty in the MCU has felt Nolanized, not to mention Mandarin.

And of course the current DCCU only has one movie we've seen.  And the way I see it every glimpse we've seen of Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad has undermined the notion that DC is afraid to embrace the flamboyant aspects of their Universe.  It's funny actually, all the talk about how DC was running their movies by being to realistic, and now the SS pics come out and everyone is whining how unrealistic it looks.  They're clearly fully embracing the Magick of their universe way faster then it's taken Marvel.  And it's clear that Snyder was being held back from his more stylish style for MOS and isn't anymore for BvS.

I've even seen some claim that Ironically DC is less dark and serious then Marvel in the Comics and so find DC taking the darker rout for Movies a rejection of everything DC stood for.

That depends on what period you're talking about, if you're talking about the Silver and to a lesser extent Bronze age then yes, that's true.  The times when DC was loosing to Marvel in sales.

But the DC Comics I fell in love with as a child of the 90s and early 2000s were very dark.  Even the ones that had Superman.  Identity Crisis, OMAC Project, Infinite Crisis, the Teen Titans under both Wolfman/Perez and Geof Johns.  Batman getting his back broken, Superman dying and coming back, Hal going crazy, these are the stories that made me a DC fanatic.  And for Batman stuff like Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive and War Games, and Under the Red Hood.  In the 90s was when Marvel was massively loosing to DC in sales.

The MCU does have plenty of darkness and seriousness.  And MOS had plenty of humor.

I've also seen haters of the current DC Cinematic Universe saying DC is doing it right on TV, and then putting Arrow and The Flash together just because they're technically in the same universe.  The Flash has been great, fantastic, marvelous.  Arrow however to me has been doing exactly what the DC Cinematic Universe is being falsely accused of.

If you're gonna refute that assessment with "Arrow included the Lazuarus pit for Ra's and the movies didn't". Those movies aren't in this Cinematic Universe, that's the problem, Nolan's style that was perfect for Batman but not so ideal for others is being assumed to still rule the upcoming DC films.  The things about MOS that were accused of coming from Nolan are clearly gone from Batman V Superman based on what we've seen so far.  And I don't think those things were actually Nolan's fault anyway, Nolan's movies certainly didn't desaturate their colors.  Of course the "Man of Steel in Color" video on Youtube is a fraud, MOS wasn't that desaturated as they claimed there.  But I do wish it had been brighter and it looks like BvS will be.

Having the Lazurus pit doesn't help Arrow's take on Ra's and the League of Assasins since they removed most of his exotic charisma, and has all the League members wearing the same boring looking costume.  And they removed his Eco Terrorist motivation and have him pretty much being Evil simply to be Evil.

Arrow had a strict rule against Super Powers until sharing a continuity with The Flash was thrust upon them.  Their Suicide Squad contained none of the truly Flamboyant members.  They've pretty much treated Oliver as if he were Batman, Oliver is not such a grim anti-social character in the Comics.  And they refuse to give Black Canary her authentic costume with the Iconic Fishnets, instead just making her look like a slighter more prudish Catwoman.  And of course they are taking their sweet time letting Ray Palmer shrink.

The recent SS pics show the Cinematic Universe is much more willing to embrace truly Comic Book like Costumes.  Harley Quinn will have more then one costume in the film, I too am not fond of the New52 based one in the first pics we saw, Arkham City had the ideal Harley costume to me.  But regardless it is from the comics.  And their look for Enchantress is less realistic then any form I've seen her have in the comics.

And sometimes the "toned down" version of the character, is more like how they originally were before later writers started exaggerating them.  That's why I love this Killer Cros look, I'm sick of the overdone Killer Croc we see in the Arkham games.  On the other hand, Echantress's look reminds me of what I don't like about Poison Ivy in the Arkham games.

What really bums me out about the BrosWatchPLLToo duo being so firmly on this DCCU hating bandwagon, is that I know they like me care a great deal about women being treated better in genre fiction.  The DC has had a horrible track record with this in the Comic all through the New52 and even a little before.  But in other media right now, especially with movies they are doing far better then Marvel.

Marvel continues to refuse to include Black Widow and Gamorra in the merchandising, while DC is making a new line for young Girls, I just hope it corresponds with better female representation in their main marketing lines.

The MCU is taking till Phase 3.5 to give us a female lead Solo film, and we know from leaked emails their CEO has no confidence in female lead Superhero films.  With DC we'll have Wonder Woman before then even though they got started later.  WW will be the 4th film total, 3rd after it was confirmed we're getting a universe, and before the first JL film.  Gail Simon said someone she trusts told her WW will be the best part of BvS, and I always knew Gadot would do awesomely.

Marvel kept the full Smurfette principle for it's first two team films and then just now upgraded to 2 women in a team of 9.  Suicide Squad will unfortunately have twice as many men as women, but at least DC has more then 2 women on the team right from the start.

And they aren't all White.  Age of Ultron featured all of the core 3's Black Friends in small roles, how diverse of them.

I have my concerns with both DC and Marvel's upcoming plans, but I remain excited for both.

Supergirl is a Popular character

This is my third post on the subject of Supergirl and her upcoming show.  In related news a comment of mine was read on the SupergirlRadio Podcast.  I'm MithrandirOlorin.

The title of this post probably seems to most people like stating the obvious.  But Supergirl has her haters out there, and I've been reminded lately of arguments I had years ago on IMDB with one annoying hater who was really attached to the original Post-Crisis no other Kryptonians rule.  I love the Crisis to Crisis era Superman, but my biggest problem with that era is how it screwed over Kara.

These arguments were had back when the Leob Supergirl was just starting in 2006-7.  This person insisted Supergirl, particularly the Kara Zor-El version, was not a popular character in-spite of the endless number of women who cosplay as her and create fansites for her, and cited as his proof that all of her own solo comics were canceled relatively shortly, the Linda Danvers version of the Matrix Supergirl (one who was not a Kryptonian) lasted the longest.

His logic failure was that a character doesn't get their own solo comic until they've already proven themselves popular.  Even Superman and Batman proved themselves in Action Comics and Detective Comics first, yes they were always the main selling point/cover feature but they were still anthologies and so hypothetically you could hate them and still like something else.

Spin Offs can fail because some characters don't work on their own as well as they do as supporting characters. But other times the creative team decides to change everything when giving one their own comic rather then naturally and organically continuing the stories that were already working.  Supergirl started collage twice during the Bronze Age, things like that created hurdles every time she had a new start, but still her solo adventures did do well.

Supergirl first got her own comic in the 70s, but before that her own solo adventures had already been the chief selling point of Adventure Comics since the late 60s, and she'd been the cover feature on a number of Action Comics also.

That first series "cancellation" was really it being merged with the Jimmy and Lois Lane comics to create The Superman Family.  The Superman Family had Jimmy Olsen's numbering because his numbering was the largest and back then many newsstands weren't really interested in trying to sell low numbered comics.  The vast majority of the Superman Family comics had Supergirl and her adventure in that issue as the most prominently featured on the cover.  It was the Lois and Jimmy style stories DC wanted to faze out with the merger, because since Comic readers had gotten older and it wasn't the Silver Age anymore those kinds of stories were becoming out of fashion.

Supergirl's second solo comic came in the 80s, it lasted 4 years or so till the Crisis came.  DC constantly cancels comics in-spite of their popularity when one of these revamping events comes along, it happened to Gotham Central and the Cassandra Cain Batgirl after Infinite Crisis, and it happened to the Stephanie Brown Batgirl after Flashpoint. DC makes a lot of bad decisions when time to revamp comes along.  In 86 they made some good decisions too, but the more recent ones have just been all bad.

Kara was gotten rid of because they decided to throw out the Baby with the Bathwater, yes other people somehow surviving Krytpon's destruction had gotten out of hand, but Kara stood on her own merits and they should have realized having a Last Daughter of Krypton didn't undo Superman being The Last Son.

The Linda Danvers series from the 90s and early 2000s did better then the other non Kara Supergirls (including other versions of the Matrix) and to some people at least better then many of the Post-Crisis Karas because she was given the Secret Identity (Linda Danvers) and other aspects of the Pre-Crisis Supergirl.  But I'd argue a not insignificant amount of sales for the Matrix's various comics came from casuals seeing it on the stand and from the costume assuming it's the same Supergirl as either the 84 movie or STAS.  I distinctly recall that's why I bought the ones I had.

The reason why acceptance of all the modern takes on Kara Zor-El have been mixed at best is because they never give her anything about the Original Pre-Crisis Kara besides being blond and Superman's Cousin.  I want Supergirl to be modernized like Superman is, but you can do that while also keeping the Danvers and Midvale, and Dick Malverne and Lena Thorul and Jerro and her old villains and so on.   Superman's modernizations bring the supporting cast with, but Supergirl's don't.  Sadly it looks like the new TV show is more of the same here, they are using the Danvers name but that's it, they're instead surrounding Supergirl with the left over Superman characters that Zach Snyder isn't using.

There are plenty of things I like about the new 2005 and up takes on Kara, Superman Unbound especially. but all their failings I feel revolve around refusing to surround her with updated versions of her Pre-Crisis supporting cast and civilian life.  I would include those, and maybe throw in some characters created for the 90s Linda Danvers also.

Critics of my premise may say that Supergirl's supporting cast was basically just Superman's or Superboy's gender flipped.  I respond, Only to the extent that every Superhero's supporting cast uses Superman's as the template, we just notice it more for other S shield wearing characters. So many Superhero love interests who are reporters that in the 90s the DCU had a View stand in made up entirely out of them. The Daily Bugle is basically the Daily Planet if Jimmy Olsen was the Superhero and Perry White was against the Superhero.

The cast for the new Supergirl show looks like Superman's gender flipped as much as that cast of Pre-Crisis characters I mentioned above.  They're simply promoting Cat to Perry and Jimmy to Lois.

Many people don't realize how many interesting villains Pre-Crisis Kara had, here is a short list.

1- Lesla Lar: an evil Kryptonian from Kandor that looks just like Kara, tried to replace Kara as both 'Kara' and Supergirl.

2- June Moone The Enchantress: a magical witch.  This character has become popular outside of Supergirl, she'll be in the upcoming Suicide Squad film.

3- Black Flame (Zora Vi-Lar): an associate of Lesla Lar.

4- Brains: leader of "The Gang" who fought Supergirl in the 80s.

5. Tor-An: a Phantom Zone villain who seduced Kara while posing as her High School teacher.

6. Kryotonite Kid: a kid made of Kryptonite.

And my favorite
7. Nasthalthia Luthor: a female relative of Lex Luthor. I suspect the Alex character will turn out to be her.

The two from Kandor could easily be reinterpreted into Phantom Zone villains, if you want to avoid the Kandor absurdities.

The perception that DC are the ones who are rushing

Neither of Marvel's 2016 films have started filming yet, for DC one is done the other recently started filming.  Civil War will be out before Suicide Squad, and has a grander scale, yet it is much later to start filming.

Plus Wonder Woman starts filming this November even though it won't be out till 2017.

So far DC is putting more time into each individual film then Marvel is.  Plus Disney is gonna rush the traditional SW film schedule to give us 3 (2 main series) movies in less then a year and a half.

It looks like it's Disney/Marvel that doesn't want to take their time.

Marvel and DC characters who share the same code name

I find it amusing how no matter what whichever character linked to that name in the Comics came first will be the last to appear in their respective Cinematic Universe.

The DC owned character affiliated with the name Captain Marvel came way before, being a Golden Age character.  He no longer goes by that name now thanks to complicated trademark BS but he will always be Captain Marvel to me.  Marvel's Captain Marvel will be getting her film before Shazam (but still not before Wonder Woman,  DC is beating Marvel to getting a Female lead film out even though Marvel had a huge head-start).

With the characters known as 'The Enchantress" it's the opposite.  Thor's nemesis/love interest Amora came first in the comics, but DC's June Moone will be appearing in Suicide Squad in 2016.  Amora isn't likely to appear any sooner then the next Thor solo film now slated for November 2017, and there is no confirmation on that even.  Marvel has no excuse for this, she should have been in the Thor franchise by at least the second film.  If she's not in Ragnorock I'll be pissed, I may even not see it over that, by then I'll be having more then two Marvel and one DC films a year to hold me over, so I probably will start opting out of some Marvel ones.

If Amora is in Ragnarok they'll probably never call her Enchantress.  June probably will be, the code names are likely part of how Task Force X operates.

So the chances of audience confusion are pretty low.  Still, I find it amusing that this is how things are playing out.

The Joker can easily be overexposed

The Dark Knight was a big deal because we hadn't seen The Joker on the big screen in 19 years.  And in 89 we hadn't in 23 years.  After The Dark Knight I was prepared to be perfectly content if it did take that long or longer to get a third cinematic Joker (2027-2031).  And TDK achieved that with him having only 35 minutes of screen time out of a 2 hour and 24 minute film (not counting the closing credits in the run-time).

Now I've heard that Leto's contract signs him on to appear in 3 Suicide Squad films, 3 Solo Batfleck films, a Joker film with him and Robbie as the leads, and possible cameos in Justice League films.

If you're thinking "it's not a problem to see Batman in that many films" Batman was designed to be the main character.  Yet some people do think he's overexposed, being in at least 1 Animated film every year, sometimes all 3 Animated films DC does.  And now Batman elements are a core part of 2 Prime-Time TV shows.  Gotham and Arrow which get numerous lesser known Batman characters plus Ra's Al Ghoul. And soon Teen Titans will have Dick Grayson and Oracle/Batgirl.  A growing minority of people are getting sick of Batman.

And if you know me from my Internet activity elsewhere you might be thinking "You're ok with Lex being in every Superman film, and Dr.Doom in every F4 film, and Magneto in every X-Men film, and so on".

Well those are sagas that don't have the variety of awesome villains Batman has. And those Nemeses are also more human characters, who have personal relationships with the heroes.  Each has at least in some depictions been a Friend first.  There is no Frenimy vibe with The Joker, no teaming up against a greater threat, in TDK The Joker is the greater threat that causes Maroni to help the good guys.

But beyond that The Joker is not a run of the mill villain or Arch Nemesis "When Supervillians want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories".

In terms of what seeing The Joker show up in a Batman story should mean, I don't consider him comparable to Lex Luthor but rather to Brainiac.

Harley Quinn being in that many films I'm fine with.  In fact I think it may hurt Harley's character that Robbie's version of her will never be seen without The Joker.  Her relationship with Ivy is something I definitely want to see.  And Harley herself can be a reminder that The Joker exists without actually seeing him.

Even seeing The Joker is every Batman film of the future series I feel is bad, because how will other Bat-Villains truly get to shine if they're always in the shadow of The Clown Prince of Crime?  Lex appearing with other villains is different because he is designed to be (the CEO version anyway) an arc villain,  The Joker is the Wildcard that characters like Lex would want locked up just as much as Batman does.

But beyond that, is the idea of The Joker being in non Batman films.  I was iffy on him being in Suicide Squad to begin with.  Assault on Arkham works because those Animated films are supposed to be outside the box experiments.  Introducing the Suicide Squad to non Comic readers with The Joker's shadow hovering over them shows a certain lack of faith in the property, if Guardians of The Galaxy didn't need Loki then SS shouldn't need The Joker.  If however for all the hype Leto winds up being in the film no more then Thanos was in GotG then I might consider that a relief.

But now that it sounds like he may be in all 3 Suicide Squad films?  How does this even remotely represent the kinds of stories the Suicide Squad usually deals with?  They usually don't even operate within the US.  They should be like Mission Impossible but with a team of villains.

And a Joker solo film...... yes there have been Comics with The Joker as the Title Character.  Their appeal has always worn off pretty quickly.

A film with Harley and Ivy as the leads, that could work.  But ideally of characters who are Batman antagonists it's Catwoman who is best at carrying her own stories.  But of course Executives think the Halle Berry film failing means Catwoman can't carry a movie.  Rather then simply blaming that film's failure on being Catwoman in name only.

The Joker in a Justice League film could work maybe if they do a Legion of Doom story, but the LoD has never existed in the actual Comics, closest analogue is the Secret Society of Supervillians from the Infinite Crisis lead in.  Infinite Crisis issue #2 explains why The Joker wasn't asked to join that.  So I wouldn't want The Joker as a LoD member but as a Wild Card.